Commissioner Joseph Guthrie

Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services 

P.O. Box 1163

Richmond, Virginia 23218

Dear Commissioner Guthrie,

I am writing to ask for parity in Virginia gaming. As you know, a 2020 law allowed for charities, with the help of a professional operator, to run Texas Hold’em poker tournaments. After waiting years for VDACS to promulgate regulations for tournament play, your recently published draft makes charitable poker infeasible both from an economic and quality of play perspective. There are 3 specific issues we would like you to fix during the comment period that opens on January 15, 2024. These actions require no new legislation and will promote survival, growth, and equal treatment of charitable gaming in our Commonwealth.

We have heard that you have stated point blank that you refuse to change these regulations based upon pressure from 1-2 specific legislators. We submitted public comments on these issues in the past and to date our opinions have been ignored. We hope you will adopt these comments and if not provide sound public policy reasons why you feel the need to regulate well beyond what the enabling legislation requires.

The issues we would like you to address are:

Concurrent Tournaments: The draft regulations limit a charity to only two tournaments in a 24-hour period. This regulation will basically kill charitable poker. Poker operators need to hire and train dealers. Two tournaments a day is not enough work for dealers. Moreover, 2 tournaments a day will severely hamper play. Casinos have no limitation on the type and frequency of tournaments they can hold. This arbitrary limit will strongly discourage poker players from playing with the charities. There is no sound public policy reason for this limitation. Nothing in the 2020 poker law sought to limit the number of concurrent tournaments, rather it was meant to help replace bingo revenue for charities.  No casino, bingo hall, sports book (or skill games if legalized) have any restriction that limits the operators’ ability to run the games that patrons demand. There is no time limit on how long someone can play pull tabs, bingo or any games at casinos. We request that you strike any reference to limiting the number of tournaments played in a day or concurrently. 

Use of proceeds: The charities desire is to donate the same percentage of proceeds from poker as all other forms of charitable gaming. However, mandating that 10% of gross receipts be mandated for use of proceeds, if receipts are defined to include the poker prize pool, will make it virtually impossible for charities to host poker. Poker entry fees are divided into both a prize pool and a house fee. The prize pool is held in trust for the winners. It is not revenue to the charity. For example, if an entry was $300 plus $30, if that full amount ($330) was counted as receipts, then the charity would have to donate $33 from $30 income - a non-starter. The only reason we have heard for this is that those same 1-2 legislators think we should follow bingo. Comparing bingo use of proceeds to poker use of proceeds is not proportional.  Bingo prizes average 75% of gross revenue and poker prizes average 90% of gross revenue.  Working with the current statute that mandates use of proceeds be based on gross revenue, the simple formula is to set the poker use of proceeds fee at 3.5% of gross revenue.

Tipping: We have been told the draft regulations prevent tipping because you had wanted tipping to be done as it is in casinos, which has a lock box for tips that are shared equally among the dealers. The charities want the exact same type of tipping which is the custom of the industry and we would ask that you remove that burden on charities that will make it that much harder for them to employ and retain dealers.  

In sum, we ask that the charities ability to fundraise for their charitable purposes be encouraged not discouraged.  The monitoring of these events should be the primary focus and goal of these regulations. Thank you for your consideration on these issues and your continued support of the Commonwealth's charities.

Sincerely,

Wren M. Williams

Delegate

My name is Daniel Roth, a resident of Henrico County, and a member of the Board of Rudlin Torah Academy, central Virginia’s only full-time Jewish Day School for children in grades K-8.

To ensure ongoing success in educating our children, we require ongoing financial support via charitable giving of individuals and organizations.

A significant portion of our funds raised has historically been from charitable gaming organizations such as Pop’s Poker. It is critical to our success, and the resultant educational successes of our students, that regulations be modified in a way that allows Pop’s, and organizations like it, to return to its place as a reliable generator of charitable funds through its poker programs.

For this reason, I strongly support Del. Wren Williams’ comment submitted on February 7, 2024 on these regulations. I hope you will adopt his suggested changes.

Hi there,

I am on the board of a school for children that has received scholarship funds for needs families to be able to attend our school from a charity that relies on Poker to help out the community. For this reason, I strongly support Del. Wren Williams comment submitted on February 7, 2024 on these regulations. I hope you will adopt his suggested changes. Thank you.
Josh Goldberg

I played at Pop's the night before the legislature shut it down. It was fun and safe. The closure was a poor decision with no good rationale backing it.  

We still have VA roots, with kids in school and friends and family there.  I would love to play poker in Virginia again, and it would give me a big reason to stay longer and spend more money in the state.

I hope the legislature will see fit to return to the sanity of the earlier regulations on charity poker.

I am writing to express my support for Delegate Williams' comments on February 8th related to Poker Regulations.

I serve as Chair of Richmond's Hebrew Day School Board of Trustees (RTA).  RTA was a recipient of a donation that was only possible because of the games at Pops.  These games provide a safe place for enjoyment, and the donations change people's lives.   For RTA, it means keeping a building open for Richmond's Jewish children.   

I do hope the changes stated by Delegate Williams will be made.

Thank you,

Sheri L Prupis, Ph.D.

Chair, RTA Board of Trustees

Hi. My name is Elly Goldberg and I am involved in school that received a very significant donation from charitable poker. For the reasons stated therein, I strongly support Del. Wren Williams comment submitted on February 7, 2024 on these regulations. I hope you will adopt his suggested changes. Thank you.

Elly Goldberg

I am retired US Army officer and civilian who decided to be close to my grandkids in Virginia my upon retirement.  My wife and I enjoy an occasional game of poker and would love to see a good game be available in our state instead of traveling elsewhere.  I wholeheartedly support the changes articulated by Reps William and Taylor. 

Think about the message your sending to your constituents.The casinos would not even consider doing business in Virginia under these type of restrictions but you expect charitable gaming venues to function under these new restraints.Also what other industry is restricted that the wait staff can not be tipped? I find this highly discriminatory.I strongly support delegates Williams and Taylor's  changes to these new regulations.I hope you will adopt their suggested changes.Thank you for listening to a concerned citizen.

I would like to thank all of you who give of yourself to help the Commonwealth. I have been playing Texas Holdem  for at as long as 20yrs. I am 74 now.I have been playing at various venues around the city. All have been enjoyable . I have been in Pops for the last 3 years and find it the best in town, I am very,very very glad that it supports charities and my money is helping out. 

I am very disturbed that there is not an even playing field is someone getting paid off?

Respectfully

Tom Barrett ChFC,CLU

I am the VP of Ways & Means on the board of a small school that has recently received a large donation from Pop's Poker. We are incredibly grateful for their support. For the reasons stated therein, I strongly support Del. Williams' and Del. Taylor's comments on these regulations, submitted on February 7, 2024. I hope that you will adopt the suggested changes. Thank you.

I am father to five daughters who go to school at RTA. Pop's poker has been a crucial benefactor of my daughters' school. The draft regulations will cripple charitable poker. I urge you to enact the changes suggested by Delegates Wren Williams and Kim Taylor.

I support delegates Williams and Taylors' letters/position in regard to local charitable poker.

 These small poker rooms in no way have any effect on large scale gaming such as Rivers, 80 miles away. It brings jobs, safe entertainment, and charitable support to the community.  It provides more of a community activity for the players. Recently, I was one of 172 players that showed up for a free tournament! While present I had a conversation with a detail police officer and asked him if he has EVER had any problems at Pop's Poker and he replied in the negative. This is a perfect example of a small business that should be encouraged, it is a classic win/win/win situation!

Thank you for your time.

 Greg Kent

I am David Ryan, the Governor of the Fraternal Order of the Good Lions Richmond Lodge No. 1. (the “Good Lions”). The Good Lions is a charitable entity based in Richmond, VA. The Good Lions mission is to “promote the common good, positively impacting the community social welfare, morale and unity through the promotion of fraternity, neighborliness, shared educational and cultural experiences, fellowship and comraderies.” Over the past 40 years, the Good Lions and other Richmond-based community charities have generated significant revenues for charitable donations that originated from Pops Bingo Hall, which includes both traditional bingo and electronic pull tabs.

Charitable gaming has a long history in the Commonwealth and for some time was the only form of legal gaming in Virginia. Charitable gaming was joined by the Virginia Lottery in 1988. Charitable gaming – i.e., gaming where a percentage of the proceeds is donated to charities - now faces significant competition from for-profit entities as well as the Virginia Lottery. It is a time of significant change for gaming in Virginia as casinos are now proliferating in the Commonwealth. In addition to all the table games, slot machines and other games of chance, casinos can offer virtually unlimited poker, which goes well beyond Texas Hold ‘Em tournaments, and includes cash games, stud poker, Omaha, etc. The current gaming landscape also includes Colonial Downs + Rosie’s gaming operations throughout the state, at which they offer a wide range of electronic games and horse wagering. In addition, sports betting is now legal in the Commonwealth. Lastly, the Virginia Lottery offers a wide range of scratch tickets at stores and also has a range of online gaming in addition to the traditional numbers’ games. At the time of this comment, it appears as if the General Assembly will also likely legalize so called “skill games.”

In this climate, for inexplicable reasons, the charities are being severely restricted in their abilities to conduct Texas Hold ‘Em tournaments. Almost four years since the General Assembly passed a law that required the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services (“VDACS”) to promulgate regulations to permit charitable poker tournaments, we are finally close to being able to bring poker back to Pops and others that might wish to hold charitable poker tournaments. When the law was passed in 2020, it was understood that a main purpose of allowing charitable poker was to help the charities replace declining revenues from bingo. With the proliferation in gaming occurring, those revenues are projected to decline even further in the years ahead. The draft regulations have been posted and reposted several times without explanation for the long delays. Even though these regulations are exempt from the Administrative Process Act, the regulatory process has been painfully slow as the poker room at Pops and others sit vacant and the abilities to receive and make charitable donations has waned. 

We are asking for some measure of parity in Virginia gaming under the law as enacted. As we and those we are working with have repeatedly informed VDACS, the recently published draft makes charitable poker infeasible both from an economic and quality of play perspective. Accordingly, we strongly support the points made by Delegates Taylor and Williams in their letters posted on the town hall. We request that the changes suggested by Delegates Taylor and Williams be adopted into the regulations.

In particular, we strongly oppose any limitation on “concurrent tournaments.”  VDACS, for reasons unknown, has decided to severely limit the number of charitable tournaments that may be conducted per day. The draft regulations limit a charity to only two tournaments in a 24-hour period. This regulation will in effect prohibit entities like the Good Lions from conducting charitable poker tournaments, to the detriment of the charities. The law expressly recognizes that some charities will hire a professional operator to run the poker tournaments. Va. Code sec. 18.2-340.28:2.B. Poker operators  need to hire and train dealers and staff. Two tournaments a day is not enough work for the team required to run a tournament effectively. A professional operator will not be able to rely upon volunteers as utilized by bingo.

Moreover, two tournaments a day will put charities at a significant disadvantage in drawing players to their games. Casinos have no limitation on the type and frequency of tournaments they can hold. This arbitrary limit will strongly discourage poker players from playing with the charities. A well accepted type of poker tournament is called a “sit and go” tournament. This is a tournament where when 10 players (or another number as determined by the operator) have signed up and they then can “sit and go” at the table and play a tournament as enough players are available. Prohibiting sit and go tournaments flies in the face of poker operations. There is nothing in the enabling law that prohibits sit and go tournaments, yet the proposed regulations do just that.

There is no sound public policy reason for the strict limitation on the number of tournaments that may be held each day. Nothing in the 2020 poker law sought to limit the number of concurrent tournaments, rather it was meant to help replace bingo revenue for charities.  No casino, lottery game, bingo hall, sports book (or skill games if legalized) have any restriction that limits the operators’ ability to run the games that patrons demand. There is no time limit on how long someone can play pull tabs, bingo, online lottery games or any games at casinos.

VDACS is under the direction of the Honorable Governor Glenn Youngkin and his duly appointed Commissioner of VDACS Joe Guthrie. In Executive Order 19, Governor Youngkin created the Office of Regulatory Management (“ORM”). EO 19 speaks of streamlining the regulatory process and reducing the regulatory burden on Virginians. EO 19 states that the citizens deserve best in class regulatory treatment and that the ORM will work to ensure that all regulations are reviewed for their impact on the “regulated community and most importantly the private citizens of our Commonwealth.”

There has been not a single public comment stating that the number of tournaments a charity may conduct per day should be limited in anyway. Throughout this regulatory process, we have repeatedly told VDACS that the limit on concurrent tournaments would stifle the conduct they are supposed to regulate. VDACS has been indifferent to our requests, which is contrary to the policies of Governor Youngkin as expressed in EO 19 and in the creation of ORM. We respectfully request that you strike any reference to limiting the number of tournaments played in a day or concurrently. 

In sum, we ask that the charities ability to fundraise for their charitable purposes be encouraged not discouraged.  The monitoring of these events should be the primary focus and goal of these regulations. Thank you for your consideration on these issues and your continued support of the Commonwealth’s charities.

This is my 2nd comment. I believe you should helpix

     After reading the comments posted by Delegates Wrenn and Taylor, and having been involved with the whole Texas Holdem debate since day one, I wanted to respond and set the record straight about how we have gotten to where we are today. As referenced in their comments, SB936, a bill allowing charities to host Texas Hold’em poker tournaments was enacted during the 2020 session of the General Assembly. The following July the job of writing the rules and regulations regarding the play of Texas Holdem tournaments began. I attended and participated in the 3 day work session where those rules were to be written and then submitted to the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services (VDACS), the state agency that oversees charitable gaming, for approval. It was the very first day that it became apparent that Chairman Lessin and other members of his cabal weren't interested in tournaments but instead wanted to run cash games instead.
     After 30+ years of playing in casino tournaments and also running over 500 free Texas Hold’em tournaments from 2005 thru 2015, and using the same rules as in the casinos, it quickly became apparent they were attempting to rewrite the rules for tournament play in a way that was contrary to what our legislators had been led to believe. When asked at one point why they hadn’t just asked for cash games, chairman Lessin replied that they knew that they could never have gotten a bill passed asking for cash games so they decided to ask for tournaments, and then write tournament regulations that would allow them to play cash games instead. At this point it is important to remember that this piece of legislation was written by chairman Lessin and others in his inner circle and that Lessin had the most to gain financially than anyone else if he could bring his plan to fruition. His plan was to use Pop’s Bingo to host a commercial card room. VDACS immediately rejected his attempt to corrupt SB936 and refused to approve the regs the board had submitted. The Attorney General’s office also weighed in and agreed the regs did not reflect what was allowed in SB936..This set off a year long series of attempts by Lessin, whereas he refused to submit legitimate tournament regs. These attempts were shot down by VDACS and the Attorney General and eventually reached the point where he sued his own regulatory agency, VDACS, claiming they were unfairly standing in his way. He lost. It was at that time our legislators took notice of all this skullduggery and created a Senate Sub-Committee to Investigate Charitable Gaming. In addition the Office of the State Inspector General opened their own independent investigation into the Texas Hold’em debacle and other questionable goings on regarding the Charitable Gaming Industry.      
     It was about that time that chairman Lessin hired Senator Chap Peterson, the original patron of the bill, to again file suit against VDACS. Peterson knew full well what was allowed in 936 as it was his  bill and specifically mentioned tournaments 14 times and never once mentioned cash games. He lost that suit also. Still believing that he could manipulate the original bill to his own liking Lessin then sued  VDACS once again and lost
During the 2022 session of the General Assembly the legislature finally had enough of this foolishness and reduced the Charitable Gaming Board from a regulatory board to an advisory board, meaning they no longer would be able to write and submit any further regs. That now became the responsibility of VDACS. Because of pending litigation and Lessin’s attempts to introduce bills in the General Assembly to change the intent of the original bill, both of which were shot down, VDACS was unable to begin writing legitimate regs until the smoke cleared. Then, during the 2023 General Assembly session Chairman Lessin was discovered to be funding a special interest group that he had started, and that he was writing the checks for two lobbyists who were attempting to convince legislators to give him what he wanted. It is highly unusual and even unethical for the Chairman of any board or commission to engage in such an action, and when it was reported by the press in Virginia Mercury, chairman Lessin resigned before 10 o’clock the same day.
     In the comments posted by Delegates Williams and Taylor, comments that I doubt were even written by them, they seek to name a number of individuals and organizations as scapegoats for their failure to successfully corrupt SB936 and redefine it in a way it would benefit the chairman personally and financially. This includes VDACS, the Attorney General’s office.legislators, and Agriculture Secretary Guthrie. None of this could be further from the truth. The responsibility for this whole mess rests squarely on the shoulders of former chairman Lessin. In Delegates Williams and Taylors letter it complains that they have been waiting “for years” for VDACS to write regs so play could begin. Not true. If former chairman Lessin and the board had written the proper regs for 936, tournament play could have commenced as early as late 2020. In the meantime because of his actions, hundreds of charities all over Virginia, Moose Lodges, the Elks, VFWs and other organizations that could have benefitted from having occasional fundraising poker tournaments have been unable to do so because of the actions of the former chairman and others that instead wanted to create commercial card rooms for their own benefit.

     As of today the entire Charitable Gaming Board has been replaced by the Governor and it has a new chairman. In addition, the new bona fide Texas Hold’em regs will be officially adopted very soon and play will be able to commence as originally enacted by the General Assembly.
     I am also a poker enthusiast and have played most of my life but my love of poker does not supersede my commitment to see that our laws are implemented in a manner consistent with what our legislature allows, and defend them against those who would seek to do otherwise.

Tad Berman 

I am a parent of children who attend a local school that benefits from charitable gaming. For the reasons stated therein, I strongly support Del. Wren Williams' comment submitted on February 7, 2024, and Del. Kim Taylor's on these regulations. I hope you will adopt his suggested changes. Making these changes will positively affect the community, so go for it!

I am Sarah Kranz and I have directly benefited from charitable gaming in Virginia through donations to my children's school and community organizations. For the reasons stated therein, I strongly support Del. Wren Williams' comment submitted on February 7, 2024, and Del. Kim Taylor's on these regulations. I hope you will adopt his suggested changes. Thank you.