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                                                                                                                     11/7/2008                                               To the Board of D.C.J.S. and Private Security Services                                               Item 1    Code of VA.    9.1-101                

Definitions:              Administration of Criminal Justice means performance of any activity directly involving the detection, apprehension, detention, pretrial, post-trial release, prosecution, adjudication, correctional, supervision, or rehabilitation of accused persons or criminal offenders or the collection, storage and dissemination of criminal history record information.

Item 2     Code of VA    9.1-102

Powers and Duties of the Board and the Department

In this document there are 22 items on page 1-2 of these duties, the first 14 descriptions involve law enforcement and police department the remaining 8 refer to training information and policy and procedures.

Item   3   Guidelines for Developing a Criminal Justice Committee U.S. Department of Criminal Justice.2002

(Quote)  “By design the powers of the Criminal Justice System are separate across different parts of Government. The U.S. Constitution and the Virginia Constitution establish a separation of powers and checks and balances to ensure that the branches of Government that create laws, enforce laws and interpret laws are deliberately held apart from one another. Additionally these responsibilities are deliberately distributed among three different levels of Government-Federal, State, and Local.

This law HB-462 License of Locksmiths is not a new idea for those of you that may be new to this information. There was an attempt to do the very same thing in 1994 and the Governors office had the courtesy to hold public meetings to that effect in many localities around the state. This law on the other hand was conceived amongst a much smaller group of individuals that had other motivations than the safety of the people in mind which has left this law with no true direction to address the problems that do affect the safety and welfare of the public. Instead it has become an overburden intrusive confusing mess of regulations given to an agency that forms and interprets this law to fit into their policy and put guide lines on an industry that they have no idea of what we as Locksmiths do or have been doing for more years than their existence.

                 This law should stand as it was intended for the purpose to license and provide background check on this industry, but not in the D.C.J.S. Their placement of the Locksmith profession in with the title of security services business and a pile of regulation that border on anti commerce law and interstate business has me very concerned with their effects on small business. Based on the time frame of 1994 till January 2008 our legislators had not seen fit to introduce any bill to address this so called problem in this industry. Now we are faced with what has been called Emergency Legislation for locksmiths by an agency that has had the time to conspire with these persons on the method that could be adopted for it to become law but could not find the time to have public notices placed in the news papers. This agency has far reaching plans for our industry and apparently believes that the world runs on E Mail. This is not recognized as a means of notification.                                                                                                 They failed in this action to notify the industry because they failed to understand how we function. Most Locksmiths do not have complete internet access if they have it at all. That has left the Locksmith industry in an emergency of its own. We now have to comply with the law or be fined, threatened, or shut down.                           Their interpretation of National Service Providers is as confusing as the rest of their policy. When you license a Locksmith, and he follows good business practices in the performance of his duty as the responsible party to the end user, it should not matter from where the call had been initiated.

                                                                                                                                                I address this law and the department that has become the enforcement arm and to whom we must deal with in a very distrusting manner, because of their admitted hand in the formation of this law or its placement in their department.                                                        The definition of the word Locksmith in the regulation leaves me in a completely confused state. Webster’s definition of the word Locksmith (a person whose work is making or repairing locks and keys) Even Webster would be confused by the definition used in this regulation.                                                                                       Example: Definition of Locksmith in the regulations; Means any individual that performs Locksmith services or advertises or represents to the general public that the individual is a Locksmith even if the specific term Locksmith is substituted with any other term by which a reasonable person could construe that the individual possesses special skills relating to locks or locking devices including use of the words lock technician etc; etc; etc:

           In the Exception Category: No.13-22-25-26-27- You have excluded contractors, maintenance person, hardware, and box store, like Lowe’s and Home Depot. I realize that you did not name them as such so let me call them True Value hardware for this purpose of making a point.

If a person went to a True Value Store and asked if they could sell me a door lock and fit it to my house key and the store clerk said that they could,   would not a reasonable person construe that the individual had special skills related to locks or locking devises?

            This law is a disgrace to the State of Virginia and should be stopped from any further action until it can be presented to the majority of the locksmith industry and not the select few. The D.C. J.S. has stated that this law would effect about 350 to 1000 locksmiths which was a number given to them by the locksmith association, but in their filing of the fiscal impact report they stated that it would effect 26,000 to 30,000 of the Private Security Services Businesses. This would imply or at least leave me to believe that this is and was passed as a tax bill which seems to become the end result of the use of lobbyists and special interest groups that spent $50,000.00 to make law instead of writing a law for its intended purpose.                                                                                                      The Virginia Attorney General office received this emergency Regulation                                   (6 VAC 20-171, et seq.) on June 6-2008 and gave its response on June 10-2008 and had determined that the Regulations were in fact within constitutional boundaries.

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                         Quote; “To the extent that this communication may advise you that certain action is lawful, the decision whether to take such action remains a policy decision within the discretion of your agency and this communication should not be construed as a comment for or against the merits of such action.”

             The D.C.J.S. has placed the profession of locksmiths into a category of Private Security Service Business which includes things like security canine handlers and a whole host of titles. This agency will require those who have concealed carry permits to be certified by D.C.J.S. which has a very high rate of accidental discharges within its own agencies, to the point they ran out of forms for filing these occurrences. The D.C.J.S. policy along with the terms such as Electronic businesses and a whole slew of categories that absolutely have nothing to do with the locksmith business which I have been involved in for 45 Years.                                                                                                           This agency in its policy making has not considered the Electrical Code of Virginia in its determination that we as locksmiths are in the electronic category of their regulations. Virginia Code allows anyone to use a device known as a low voltage transformer which is plugged into a wall receptacle to be used for the purpose of operating a door bell, electric strikes, magnets, and a host of other items that allow every day people to do what they do without overburdening them with a electrical license or other obstacles that prevent the free flow of business.                                                             What about garage door openers, phone systems, battery powered door locks, Sam’s wholesale sales of camera equipment to the general public that resell it to end users! The definition section of this regulation only defines single words when it suites its own needs and has not define the definition of Electronic.

Under these rules I am not allowed to have school kids who need to work for job training for short periods of time for school credits.

               I am restricted from recommending a business to a customer if they are not certified by D.C.J.S. That sounds like a free speech issue as well as not allowing me to serve my customers best interest.

               In this summary of thoughts and comments the fact remains that Lawyers wrote this law and D.C.J.S. lack of ability to make it clearer to understand. This may also speak to the fact that most locksmiths are of exceptional skills in eye and mind coordination mode and not in tune to the minds of legal types, but having said that most lawyers can not fix a lock. I may be the only one to voice an opinion on this web site because most of the industry is very busy trying to keep their heads above water. In 1994 at public hearing on this subject in the relatively small town of Roanoke VA 39 people from this lock industry showed up to voice their opinions..

                I feel the need to try and assist the Board in understanding why I have a strong feeling about the department that has been given the power to enforce this law. I have looked into other states and other trades that have had problems with public fraud and the locksmith is not at the top of the list. I checked with the B.B.B. on two larger lock shops and a one man shop and found that in a three year period there were no Complaints on any of these shops in my area of Roanoke VA.

                The A.L.O.A. is no different than any other association in this country. They do not represent all of their members all the time. In my view this is one of those times.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Their ads placed in major cities around the country that have used the phrase (Phony Locksmiths) have undermined the hard working individuals that perform an honorable service to the public. It would appear that some officials in public office may have let these poor tasting ads influence their judgment.

                There are more general mechanical Locksmiths in the trade than those that perform C.C. TV or Alarm Services to the public and the ones that do perform that type of services are listed with D.C.J.S.

                 Locksmith shops in many areas for example would install electric strikes and magnets for A.D.T. under a subcontract and A.D.T. would do the wiring. Another example is the Locksmith may install an electric strike for a handicap person or secretary in an office using a low volt transformer in a wall receptacle; this type of work is approved by the Code of Virginia.                                                                                D.C.J.S. own web site states under Agency Description: The Department: Distributes federal and state funding to localities, state etc; etc; etc it seems to be obvious that your source of funding is drying up and we have become the States new funding source. The departments filing in 1998 was directed at a reduction in fees for Private Security Services. Now a Locksmith must pay from $ 1,200.00 to $ 1,800.00 depending on how many categories they need to apply for along with hotel, travel, and lost time from work, this is a hardship to small business.                                                                                     I would call that a TAX!                                                                                            

              This law would serve the public best if it had been given to the localities for implementation through their business license department. These localities can do background checks from State Police as well F.B.I They actually can do more than D.C.J.S. because they can speak to local authorities and receive a more direct view of a person character and demeanor .The localities also are better placed and much more convenient for the businesses to receive further Building Code updates. I also can tell you that A.L.O.A. and other sales reps for product knowledge give classes to keep the industry informed of changes.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       The State Corporation Commission has in its code for Conduct for Board Members, which addresses their moral and ethical conduct .Do I need another agency telling me how to run my business. The one most important issue in business and life is moral conduct. When Government changes the meaning of words as they have in these regulations, it can cause reasonable persons to perceive that these distortions of the English language is not in the best interest of the same people that it is suppose to protect. It would appear in this case that the end justifies the means.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Robert Frydrych                                                                                                                       Troutville VA. 24175

The regulation of Locksmiths who are Concealed Handgun Permit holders exceeds the regulatory authority granted to the rule maker. 

There is not a clear definition of Locksmith.

This regulation will certainly have a negative financial impact upon citizens, local and state agancies in Virginia.  This proposed rule should be examined for financial impacts.

Robert Frydrych spoke very well on why this bill needs to be Opposed at a greater length than I could ever recount. I applaude him for his honesty, and homework in researching the unwanted change that this bill would cause in Virginia.  Just want to know... What is wrong with the current system?  Who is proffiting from this propposed piece?  And why in hell would anyone support this bill?

To many gears in this cogg of leglislature would be un-accounted for, and would eventually stop an otherwise perfectly good running clock.

SOME OBSERVATIONS YOU MAY WISH TO CHANGE OR REMOVE.

1. NSP'S (NATIONAL SERVICE PROVIDERS) THIS SHOULD BE AMMENDED TO ALLOW ANY LICENSED VA DCJS ENTITY TO PERFORM THE WORK. AS THE CUSTOMER REALLY IS THE NSP.

2. CONCEALED WEAPONS REGULATIONS PERTAINING TO LOCKSMITHS MAY OR MAY NOT BE LEGAL I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY, HOWEVER IT MAY ALSO BE A DIRECT CONFLICT WITH VA 15.2-915 THAT CLEARLY GIVES YOU THE RIGHT AND BENEFIT TO OPEN CARRY ANYWHERE IN THE COMMONWEALTH. I THINK DCJS SHOULD VERY MUCH LOOK AT THIS POSTION THEY HAVE TAKEN. LOCKSMITHS HAVE BEEN KILLED BEFORE! AND IF YOU HINDER THE RIGHT OF SELF PRESERVATION YOU THE DCJS SHOULD BE LIABLE AND CAUSED TO PAY RESTITUTION.

REMEMBER IN ORDER TO GET A CONCEALED PERMITT YOU MUST SHOW TRAINING WHY MORE?

3. THE POSITIONS OF "APPRENTISE LOCKSMITH" AND "LABORER" ,  ARE NOT ADDRESSED AND SHOULD HAVE LANGUAGE FOR CLARITY.

LASTLY, I WOULD LOVE TO SAY WHAT I REALLY FEEL AND DIRECTLY TO THOSE DELAGETS AND CITIZENS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS FIASCO, HOWEVER SINCE THIS IS A PUBLIC FORUM I WILL ONLY SAY AS I SAID IN RICHMOND. IF WE WERE TO HAVE HAD PROPER "LANGUAGE" AND 'DO PROCESS' THIS COULD BE THE MODEL OTHER STATES WOULD BE PROUD TO ENACT. FIX OR REPEAL THIS LAW! REMEBER PEOPLE, IT IS THE CUSTOMER WHO DECIDES WHICH COMPANY IS SUCCESSFULL AND WHICH ONE FAILS . IT SHOULD NOT BE THE ROLE OF THE GOVERNMENT TO ENACT LEGISLATION THAT HINDERS BUSINESS AND CREATES REVENUE LOSS!

Where to begin? There are so many issues regarding Locksmith Licensing, that no one response can cover them all.  

1st and foremost: Regarding the issue of licensing: Locksmiths should be licensed BUT not under the dictates of DCJS as Private Security Services Businesses unless any one and everyone that installs and/or services locks is also licensed under DCJS: NO EXCEPTION! This includes ALL contractors, handymen, property manager, facility managers, painters, lawyers, accountants, taxi driver, tow trucks, etc. that install, service or subcontract the installation or service of any kind of locking device for some one else regardless of them calling themselves a LOCKSMITH or not. The primary difference between them and those of us who want to call ourselves locksmiths is that locksmiths specialize in locks and locking devices just like electricians and plumbers specializing in their trades (licensed under the contractor board.) Locksmiths do a BETTER job of selection and installation of locking devices. The law exempts far more people and professions than it includes, but, the exceptions do a disservice to the public as well as those of us that want to call ourselves Locksmiths. I’ve know contractors who subcontracted the lock installation to a painter! I know because I was called in to correct a lock installation: it took me all of 5 minutes to correct the mistake that the painter had spent 4 hours trying to fix.

Since DCJS has exempted all Key Cutters from the licensing requirement and since sales personnel are already exempt by the law, the issue is not the cutting of keys or sales of hardware, what is left to regulate and restrict? What’s left is the installation and servicing of locking hardware and those with the skills to do it best! NOTE: lockouts are a very small part of locksmithing and should be addressed separately. I would gladly give up those few dollars for a proper license and to be licensed by the proper agency such as DPOR and the State Contractors Board.  

How do these functions equate to dog handlers, armored car personnel, private investigators, etc? They simply DON’T! And should not be licensed by the same agency!

Locksmiths cut keys better than any exempt technician! Locksmiths know more about what lock hardware works best in different applications than any exempt sales person! Locksmiths know if a lock is bad or if it is the key that’s bad! Locksmiths know if a lock is of good quality or if it is just the manufacture’s claim that the lock is good quality! These are professional skills that cannot be regulated or imposed by any government agency!

2nd: Virginia is a COMMONWEALTH! The power belongs to the local governments which can better serve the needs of the public! Speaking of the public: where is the public outcry to be protected from the mean and nasty unlicensed locksmiths?

3rd: DCJS stated in its impact statement that it needed to hire 2 additional people to implement the licensing of locksmiths. Virginia has imposed a hiring freeze so DCJS is not able to use the licensing fees to hire and pay these 2 additional people. What is happing to the licensing fees that I and other locksmiths have paid? Looks and smells like a TAX to me!

4th: The locksmith licensing under DCJS is having a negative impact on the citizens of the Great Commonwealth of VA. I’ve heard from numerous locksmiths that they are going out of business because of the cost of licensing. This leaves citizens in rural VA without the services of skilled and experienced locksmiths. Also, I’ve heard from many locksmiths that they have no choice and are raising their prices just to cover the cost of the licensing and registration fees! I know that I’ve had to raise my prices! Thank you Richmond! Who is really being served by higher prices? Not the public! Read on!

5th: HB462 reeks of protectionism for the business owners that introduced and spent so much money to get this licensing law passed. I thought government backed protectionism for businesses was illegal. I’m not a lawyer so it’s just my thought.  

The companies that introduced this licensing law spent years buying out the small locksmiths businesses and lock shops. Why? Was it to control the locksmith industry? They even spent money on a sales rep who tried to get other locksmiths to raise their prices; I know because he told me I needed to raise my prices because I wasn’t charging enough to meet my expensed: If this was true why am I still in business with my low prices.

6th: The training requirement that was stated in HB462 was to be similar to the alarm industry; not identical. If DCJS is going to define and dictate training, why doesn’t it take advantage of its golden opportunity to establish a training syllabus for locksmiths that would benefit locksmiths and the public? Identifying a specific key type is best left up to the employer and provides absolutely no benefit to the public. If DCJS wants to implement useful subjects for training, why not spend the training time teaching “Life Safety”, “Fire Code”, and the state mandated building code standards? I cannot tell you how many times I’ve been called to come and correct the shoddy work of the large locksmith companies when a new business fails its fire and safety inspection!

I attended DCJSs forum on locksmith training and voiced this same suggestion! I was told that the DCJS mandated training needed to make well rounded locksmiths so “they would have skill that would be useful to other employers”. The training was not to make knowledgeable locksmiths or locksmiths that knew anything useful to the public.

7th: As for weapons certification - I know many neighborhoods that I cannot send a lock technician into to provide locksmith services without him being able to carry a concealed weapon. I now avoid those neighborhoods. This is another disservice to the public.

8th: DCJS’s implementation regarding National Service Providers (NSPs) makes it harder for the public to find a simple solution for its general service needs. NSPs provide an easy one stop solution for many of the needs that businesses have in dealing with daily problems that are not related to their business’s function but can impact their daily business operation. Locks are a good example of this. NSPs are not providing the service, they only contact a locksmith and it is the locksmith that is responsible for providing the service and for the quality of the service. NSPs should not be included in any locksmith licensing requirement! NSPs should only be responsible for verifying that the locksmith company they contact is licensed.

This is not the end of the issues I have, but it is all I have time for. If any one at VA Regulation Town Hall wishes to speak to me about these points or others, please call (703) 968-8118.


 

While we agree whole heartedly with the concept of locksmiths being required to have a valid license to operate within the Commonwealth of Virginia, we do take exception with the way this is playing out.  We are in favor of the requirements of finger printing and backround checks, but that is where our support ends.                                                                                                                                                 We feel that anyone who participates in providing locksmith services of any kind should be required to have a license if he/she advertises, provides or implies these services including hardware, home improvement, maintenance, etc..   This includes offering rekeying, master keying, keying alike, repair, replacement of parts,etc.                                                                                                                                    We feel that there should be temporary licensing granted for apprenticeships.                                     We feel that anyone who practices the profession of locksmithing should be certified by an accredited school, not just through ALOA.  A list of accedited schools should be posted for referance.                                                                                                                                                                As far as continuing education goes; any locksmith who is actively working in the industry has no choice but to keep abreast of the improvements, upgrades and new products if he/she wants to stay in business.  If classes are offered, they need to be offered by knowledgable and qualified teachers.  In many instances this would be a representative from a manufacturer.  If the Commonwealth would like to provide these in various locations throughout Virginia, that would be good.                                We in southwest Virginia operate in a very different climate than those in Northern Va. and Tidewater and we want to be sure that all who participate in locksmithing are treated equally  and that the public is protected and well served.

Where to begin? This whole show (HB462) is one big mess. The local Delegate for my county wouldn't return any phone calls on his voting for this crap. But I'll remember him come election time. His office called me to unlock his office and when he got the bill he called me.

" this is really a bad law" he said, so  I asked why vote for it then?. I will meet with any locksmith to take proposals to alter the bill to make it better". Guess who won't return my calls.

 In the county I live in and pay taxes to , I rarely ever get and business  from them. I have to compete with local police and sheriffs depts. who use my tax money to go out and try to unlock cars for free.

 If this law stays in effect the first changes should be that all lock work to be performed on any public office or facility of any kind should have the DCJS license. Also police should only do emergency lockouts, such as involving a child or pet locked in.

 The local police have a list of self professed locksmiths that they rotate on call basis. I hope they all have DCJS numbers. I'll be checking this out as soon as I'm issued my photo ID.

  Now is the time to get this thing worked out to make it right before in mushrooms out of control even more.  Daryl Statome   Mobile Locksmith Co   Lexington,va.

First off let me say that I am for some sort of regulation when it comes to locksmith, I mean really, when you stop and think about it we do have a LOT of access to areas that most common people wouldn't conceder. However I personally would have expected something more along the lines of a simple criminal background check and some sort of minimal proof of knowledge of the job. The biggest thing I don't understand is why the state swimmingly did not work with or accept the accreditation of nationally recognized locksmith organizations (ALOA, IAIL, ILA, SAVTA), some of which have continuing education requirements to maintain your rating and/or membership. This whole thing almost seems like something that was hastily thrown together with no research into what was done in other states.

I have been a locksmith for 60 years and I pay my taxes and have had the privelidge to live in Virginia for over 40 years.  I am retired and continue to do locksmithing at age 78 to supliment my retirement but with this new license law I have been put out of business.

Can you not have a section for retired locksmiths to work as long as they don't advertise because I see that company's that advertise caused all this hulla balue.

I can't afford e-mail so I am using my son's e-mail to voice my opinion.  You can reach me at 3225 Holly Hill Drive, Falls Church, VA 22042.

Repealing this legislation is a step in the wrong direction.  

Some form of consumer protection is needed.  The public needs to know that personnel with access to VERY detailed security information are qualified to handle that information in such a way they stay protected.

The cost of operation hasn't increased that dramatically with this legislation, it adds about $2 per day over the first two years which does NOT warrant as dramatic of a price increase as some think it does.

Those indicating dramatic price increases are the ones who weren't operating with any insurance or business license previously, and now must comply with those regulations along with HB462.

On one response, it's mentioned that life safety codes aren't part of the outline for training with this bill.  Please see the DCJS web site for a complete outline of the 18 hours of entry level training required for locksmiths.  Life Safety and ADA codes are part of that training.

I am a founding member of the Virginia Locksmith Association 1980.  I read the law and I agree that there should be some sort of licensing for locksmiths, but at the same time we need is a path of growth within the locksmith industry in Virginia.  I caution you not to drive the small locksmith out of business through greed to earn monies through licensing.  Virginia is a "right to work state" and you will price small locksmiths out of their right to earn a living and pay taxes in Virginia.  If it is your goal to drive the small locksmith out of business you will succeed.  Redesign the law that takes into account the level of locksmith company you are.

A Locksmith 15+ employees, B Locksmith 10+ employees, C Locksmith 5+ employees, D Locksmith 1 locksmith no employees.  Base your license on this level system so it is fair and affordable.

No law is perfect, of course.  In addition, we in the metro-DC region face the challenge of fake / unlicensed 'locksmiths' who are able to pick up stakes from Virginia locations & re-locate only a few miles away in either DC or Maryland.

Having said that, we have experienced an encroachment upon the locksmith profession over the past 20 years that threatens to put the locksmith profession on its heels & eventually out of business.  At the very least, the locksmith profession is on the verge of subjugation to alarm companies & access control entities.  Why?  The changing nature of the physical security world.

Building engineers, access control entities & alarm companies, painters & carpenters & the like have been able to take on locksmith aspects, such as rekeying & hardware installations, due in part to a lack of legislation limiting who is permitted to perform these duties.  As the world of physical security moves ever faster towards electrified hardware, locksmiths run the risk of losing business on a massive scale to alarm companies & access control companies.  This trend is underway, in fact.

Licensing is a start.  I would hope that the fees that we pay, which are substantial (my company currently has upwards of 18 Security Technicians fully employed) are utilized in good conscience by the regulatory bodies to provide ethical enforcement of the laws, public education as to what defines a valid locksmith & perhaps some solid training (not just a two-day window dressing seminar) for the locksmiths & the locksmith companies that have complied with the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Regards,

Michael Groves

VP

Federal Lock & Safe, Inc.

Arlington, VA

I was initially opposed to regulation. Before licensing, anyone could step out of prison and start a locksmith business. Being in this trade gives locksmiths potential access to anything and everything. We must make sure, for the integrity of our trade, that the unscrupulous are kept out. The public has that protection with background checks and an agency (DCJS) that has teeth with its enforcement powers. Just look at northern VA. In a recent news story a reporter was unable to get a scammer to come out to her car. Scammers were readily available in DC and MD. DCJS already has a proven system set up to regulate us and I am for it. If you can't afford the license you should take some basic business courses available many places for free.

 I have been a locksmith in virginia for 28 years,and a one man operation . My company easly expensed the funds to gain the needed DCJS requirements needed. From day one I have always followed the laws taxing my income as a company in Virginia . Sadly others don't  Thay stay small under the radar and get away with it  year after year, There prices reflect  what going on . This can no longer be the done as easley This law now requires them to operate within the law or leave the business . The lock and safe business has been used by those that take advantage of the public for years, this law was needed 30 years ago. There other states that don't  regulate locksmith let them have the criminals and tax cheats

David Hockman CML    

Having met requirements to obtain a concealed weapon carry license, i oppose any further licensing requirements & the cost associated. 

First off I think we all agree we need some type of license. What we got was a law piggy backed in on the already existing electronic security one because they knew it would never go through on its on. The problem with this one is the person that calls himself a locksmith gets punished for that. it is just way to many exemptions. They say it is to protect the public. Answer me this, How are you going to protect the public from the contractors, hardware stores which includes Lowes and Home Depot, door companies, and handymen just to name a few when all of them are exempt from this license and TRY to perform the same sevices as we do and could be convicted felons or anything else but thats ok. I am sure it is a lot more of them out there than it is locksmiths. So someone please answer this for me. The bottom line is if you do locksmith work no matter what your title is you need to have the license. This includes installing locks on new houses and the tow truck driver opening cars or whatever. You can't go out and install a new light fixture without having a electricians license, why should we be any different. Also from the way I understand it the ones that have the electronic security license now has to get the locksmith category to continue to install access control because it falls under electric locks now. The problem with this is now all the alarm companies get grandfathered in to the locksmith licensed and could now do locksmith work legally and have never had any backgroud in locksmithing. Again how are we protecting the public? Sure they have passed background checks but the only thing they have done with locks is unlocked there door when they get home. So the whole point of all this is if you require one person to be licensed for doing lockwork then anyone that does it should have the same requirement no matter what the name or title is.

First of all this is a new law for Virginia and needs some revising which will come with time. I agree with the licensing because it not only will protects the consumer from being ripped off by these switch and bait artists, but it will keep out those people that aren't real locksmiths. I had a customer the other day that I had serviced after the phoney locksmith had been there. The customer key didn't work in her mortise cylinder (we all know what to do with this problem). She had told me that the person had arrived an hour later then was promissed, couldn't get her key to work, couldn't pick the lock and ended up drilling the cylinder, charging her, not the quoted fee, but $250.00. The reason I was there after the fact is that he didn't have a cylinder to replace it with and couldn't get one that day!!!  Not to mention any names but he (they) have a full page add in the local phone book with an "888" or "800" telephone number.  Anyway the purpose of this story is that these guys are giving the Locksmith Industry a bad name. The law is here to protect us, the Locksmith Industry!

HB-462 may certainly need some rifinement, but it is the greatest step Locksmiths in Virginia have seen.  Although I may not agree with the fees for DCJS, I do agree they are the best organization to provide regulations for our industry.

The Law is here to protect ciizens of the Cpmmpnwealth from being ripped off by people claiming to be Locksmiths. It also will help to protect legitimate locksmiths  providing quality security services. Customers come into our shop on a regular basis asking about a high bill they were charged by one of these bogus locksmiths.  Most locksmiths are usually one to three person operations. We can not compete with these large operations that buy four full pages of advertising and than list hundreds of numbers with phony addresses. A comment earlier about NOT carrying a license is just WRONG. This physical license allows the public to have proof a locksmith has been veted by the State and is allowed to preform work.  The State and the locksmith industry needs to educate the public about this new license.

As with anything new, there are always things that need to be modified.  The same is with these new laws.  Overall, the new regulations will in the long run, be beneficial to the industry.  We are a small family run business and rely on part time help to assist our master locksmith.  These employees have generally been college students.  One of the biggest things that we would like to see changed, would be the requirement of everyone having to complete the training class.  We fully agree with the fingerprint and background checks, but the training beyond this point should be up to the individual company.  As long as the company is registered, has a compliance agent and at least one registered locksmith, the training of extra personnel should be optional.

It is true also that large companies, such as Lowe's and Home Depot, hurt the small businesses such as ourselves.  They provide basically the same service that we do, yet they are not required to fall under the same laws.  This is something that I think should be examined and possibly be considered for some type of guidelines for them.  Just because the business is not advertising lockwork as their main source of income, doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't..........

Thank you for the opportunity to voice our concerns on this new chapter in the locksmith industry.

1.  Should we not have locksmiths on the board; 1 from Northern Virginia, 1 from Tidewater, 1 from Central Virginia and 1 from Southwest Virginia for fair and impartial representation?

2.  Why are there exemptions in the licensing law?

3.  Why does a locksmith have to follow building and fire codes when the handyman, Lowe's, Home Depot, etc don't?

4.  Why does the Commonwealth of Virginia put out bids and accept bids for locks, parts,locksmith services,etc. from out of state and from companies which are not locksmiths?

5.  With all of these exemptions, how can you tell us that the public will be protected?

6.  What is wrong with just having a backround check and finger printing to obtain a license?  Are we not tryijng to weed out the dishonest, unreputable aspects of this industry?  Wouldn't that work toward that end?

7.  Were all of these exemptions written in because of  special interests i.e. money?  (Trick question.  Of course it was!)

8.  Is there any valid reason why I, as a locksmith, am required to have a state license when the folks at Lowe's, Home Depot and the handyman don't when they perform some of the same duties that I do?

9.  Who will be teaching the locksmith classes?  Are they qualified and licensed by the state to do that?  Are they even locksmiths or knowledgable about locksmithing?  Have they ever done any locksmith work?  Or did they learn it out of a book (or better yet, on line)?

In case you're wondering, I'm all in favor of licensing and have been for years.  I do want this to be fair and equitable for all involved and some of the things that I'm seeing are far from either.

For information purposes:  my wife is a registered nurse with a valid Virginia license.  She is required to renew her license every two years at a cost of $90.00 for the two years.  And, yes, health occupations police all licensees. She is not required to have classes and/or testing for renewal.

In response to Gary Ford's comment about the Roanoke Times article and the reporter's only talking with 3 locksmiths for the article:

the current primary Roanoke phone directory (Verizon) has 18 listings under Locks and Locksmiths and 4 of those are towing services.  Three out of 14 probably isn't bad.  That would be the same as interviewing over 200 in the area that he says now has 1200 listings  I don't  think that there are many reporters that are that dedicated.

We've been trying to get the point across that southwest Virginia is a whole different ball game.  Are you beginning to see this?

Tom Demont  from ASSA makes some very good points about the small locksmith businesses.  I would venture to guess that the majority of locksmith businesses in Virginia are small and putting these small shops out of business serves no good purpose and would create severe problems.  I suggest that the board pay close attention to this potential catistrophic situation.

Thank you Tom for your input.

I believe that the law has for the most part, laid the ground work for a better enviornment in which our profession will prosper.  A good first step will require a great second step.  Everyone that has commented here have valid points in reguards to their business.  Location, size of business, scope of work.  I would hope that all of these concerns would be heard and taken into consideration by the powers that be and they can tweek and incorporate changes to make all of the Commonwealths locksmiths happy and proud of this law.  Just remember we all live here, we all work here.  We all need to keep an open mind to those who may have another opinion.

Now is the time for everyone to make suggestions for changes in the regulations and fees not to complain about the larger locksmith companies whom spearheaded this law. They just got the money to the lobbyist for the result they wanted. Money talks it appears. It is done now though, let's help make it fair for everyone, locksmiths and the public.

After all, the more expenses we have, in the end the public will help pay the price. If the public doesn't,  some locksmiths will go out of business. The public needs to be aware.

There were  too many exceptions made regarding whom needed to be licensed. I just want the public to be aware that the way this law is written tow truck drivers, larger retail stores employees, etc are excluded from having to be licensed. So folks, your local retail stores can employee sex offenders (rapists.child molesters), theives, murders, gang members etc but they can come in your home and scope it out along with your family. Scary!  

Maybe the business license fee could be modified and done the same way as our regular local business licenses are (based upon the previous years business or potential business for new locksmiths), in order to help the smaller locksmiths. Why should they have to pay the same fees as the larger companies? I would think that the larger locksmith companies shouldn't have an issue with this. If so, maybe they do want the smaller locksmiths out of the way. Everyone should incur the same costs for everything else. DCJS does have fees they incur to process fingerprints and background checks.

After all the fees that we have already paid in, where are the (2) new employees to help handle this? They are not there because of a state hiring freeze. But I am sure the existing employees have been working overtime to handle the locksmith addition. Does anyone know the round-a-bout figure on what they have collected from locksmiths? Just curious.

The education aspect is that they didn't really know about our industry before enacting the education requirements from my understanding. With the exception of input but I don't believe they had an understanding fully. Can anyone that is more familiar comment on the schools teaching the education classes? I understand that it is a joke. We as, locksmiths are having to pay someone whom has no clue. 

What education requirements/classes do the alarm people take other than the rules and regulations? They aren't that much different than us. They have access to homes, banks, etc. The DCJS needs to keep it inform.

I would like to see the classes taught by ALOA, SAVTA, etc. accepted. Locksmiths have to pay for these classes to maintain their accredition anyhow. Locksmiths will have to pay for the education classes too. Another expense that will passed through to you the public.

It would be great if being licensed through DCJS gave locksmiths more avenues of verifying ownership of cars and homes/buidlings  our disposal. This would benefit the public too.

Another issue is concealed weapons, I feel that our local law enforcement processes the license request and checks out the individuals prior to anyone who has obtained  one. This will stop the public from receiving locksmith services do to the fact their neighborhoods are questionable areas of town (Locksmiths safety issue). We need to work to support our families too just like everyone else. Locksmiths get called out for jobs due to domestic and financial problems. We are the ones that people get upset with. Have you ever had a group of 8 or more people running up on you with threats? Note most of the time,  we can't see who is behind us or coming up on us.

There needs to also be a temporary apprentice license for new employees. We all know not all people can do what we do. This would enable the business owner to try an empoyee on a probationary period based upon their ability. The way it is now, you would have to get them in classes immediately basically. I have no problem with the background checks and so forth for public safety. Maybe a 90 - 120 day period before classes would need to be started.

As for the NSP issue as long as we as locksmiths are licensed that's should be it. By not having the locksmith business search not done on the DCJS website, we have to check on it  so we don't lose our license or get fined. We don't know what their contracts entails, for that matter their dispatchers usually don't either. The dispatcher is just doing their job too. While doing so, that company trying to allow us to work, calls elsewhere to take care of their customer.

The HB-462 was pushed through quicker than I would have thought due to the fact that the phone book companies such as Yellow Book. published ads placed by scam companies. Maybe they needed to verify whom was placing ads with them before publishing to the public.  I would love to see them have to go thru hoops too.

Please keep in mind that the above comments are my personal thoughts. I hope others voice their opinions on the HB-462 law changes we would like to see made. Even if you agree or not, let your voice be heard.  Sorry for any grammar errors I wanted to submit this before time ran out. Send your comment in before 12/12/08. 

First off I don't see where it was to many earlier comments that stated this was not going to work the most would have liked to seen a different agency handle it for what reason each person has well I could'nt tell you and I really don't think you know the answer to that either. I know I pay all my taxes and everything else that is required to the best of my knowledge. Now I might get auditted tommorrow and find out I was not as I understand you had happen recently. I doubt very seriously any of us have done everything exactly by the books but all we can do is what we think is right. As far as accusing everyone of doing business illegal because they would rather see someone else oversee the license is a bit uncalled for. What we need to do instead of argueing back and forth just because we all don't  see eye to eye is to figure out what we need to do to fix what needs to be fixed. The license is here for all of us but now it needs to be fixed. I know the scammers was the big problem in your areas, we did'nt have that problem here. What we have now that there is a license is the handymen and every other person that wants doing lockwork now and they are not required to be licensed. I hear over and over that we can't touch the so called big box stores and that is probally true but if we eliminate the ones that the big box stores sub the work to then who does that leave for them to sub to. Thats right the licensed locksmith. Lowes or Home Depot don't install anything there self it is all sub contracted. But to my knowledge all they use is contractors and handymen. Correct me if I am wrong but I do't think they have all the exemptions under the electronic license, so why should the locksmith be any different. From what I understand with most everyones comment as we all want the same thing and that is a license that is fair for the small as well as the large business and that if we have training provided by the DCJS it is done by someone that has locksmith knowledge and not just the same one that does the electonic trainingand get rid of all these ridiculas exemptions. We can't protect the public or our industry by requiring only the ones that are suppose to know how to do locksmith work and allowing all the others continue to do it without one. Lets stop putting down our fellow locksmiths for there position on this and just come together and fix it. Jimmy

T

D.C.J.S.

We three in Roanoke agreed in 1994 that locksmiths need to be licensed.                      We three also have been cleared for both State and Federal back ground check before this law, we also had insurance before this law. This law could and will get better, but I for one and maybe the only one will try every thing legally to but it into the localities where it belongs. The law as D.C.J.S. has incorporated it into its agency policy which in fact has nothing to do with law, it is this agencies convoluted policy that was written for Training Law Enforcement that has caused more paper work than the average locksmith has time for. The method they use to apply this policy is violates the Code of Virginia by require Private Security Service Businesses auto alarm to add the category of locksmith to their license, for the sake of $200.00 They have unleashed an unknown amount of unqualified, unscrupulous incompetent locksmiths by their action. How is that going to be for the safety, welfare, and benefit of the public? I would like to understand how the D.C.J.S. has the right to examine my customers personal information from job tickets based on policy, when I do not allow a Police Office, nor would he ask me to do that based on his inquiry unless they have evidence of a crime was committed. That is why I call it a tax bill. One more issue with this policy, is the D.C.J.S welling to tell the public that all private or personal information given to locksmiths well now be open to the Department of Criminal Justice Services. There is a reason for the word services on the end of their name, they are a service, not a law agency, and from what I can find out they do not have Police Powers. They should have opened it up to public meetings at the local level and all could have worked up a very good bill. The one big concern for the public as far as safety is the YELLOW PAGE and you failed to even address it.                  The ads are going out as I write this sentence and you want to tell us how to run a business.

                                                                                              R. Frydrych

ype over this text and enter your comments here. You are limited to approximately 3000 words.

We must remember that the objective of licensing the locksmith - first and foremost - is to protect the interest of the public.  Although there has never been an outcry from the public on this matter, it is due to the fact that most of the general population has assumed that locksmiths have been licensed.  After all, the public entrusts a locksmith with their security; freely giving access to their premises and possessions as well as their keys, alarm codes, and safe combinations.  The locksmith is a highly-trained individual that is not only capable of securing valuables, property, and human life, but also has the knowledge to circumvent most any security system (locks, alarms, safes, etc.).  Would any right-minded citizen NOT think that locksmiths are licensed? 

That said, locksmith licensing should be fair to all those concerned.  It should be in place for the protection of the people of the Commonwealth of Virginia.  It should be in place to ensure some structure and training for our industry.  On the other hand, It should not be in place to hinder the business owner from operating his business.  It should not be in place to give unfair advantage to those performing "lock work" who claim not to be locksmiths.  It most definitely should not be in place to simply add to the coffers in Richmond.

What we currently have as law is not perfect.  We do however, have the ability to address these imperfections and change this licensing for the better; both for the security profession and for the people of Virginia.

The Business that I am and have been involved in for over 45 years, started in the state of N.Y.They have many requirements for this trade inorder for you to operate a locksmith business,but most States and Cities place these rules under a department of licenses or the Consumer affairs division of that State. This is done for two reasons, one the Department of Consumer Affairs recieves most complaints and handles problem which are brought to their attention form the public at large.Second these Departments work very well with Law Agencies in recognizing problems as they become evident, because the Police Departments deal with these issues first in their daily duties. We as a business now have a License from our County Government to do business,and the a Certificate from the State Corporation Comm.This Law was to protect the public, not to cause Small Business to be look upon as thou we are the bad guy. The need to go after Board Members by this Agencies Policy seems to speak clearly of why they chose to Excempt the Box Stores and other businesses that have teams of Attorneys to dipute them.        This needs a lot of work.    Boad Member  K. Frydrych

First of all I would like to say that I was under the impression that this discussion was for comments relating to the new law and how it seems to be working as of now and how it might be improved.  I did not think this was intended to rehash whether the locksmith addendum should have been enacted or not.

I am now a DCJS licensed business, as required by October 1, 2008, and as such I believe that I have the right to make the following comments.

1.  I find DCJS’s lack of preparedness for dealing with the new category (locksmiths) appalling.  One example is the delay in setting up a search for licensed locksmith businesses.  A second example is the inability to clarify situations (i.e. NSPs) in a quick and efficient manner.  A third example is the lack of appropriate staff.  Calls have gone unanswered and messages left unreturned.

2.  A major problem I have with the continuing education requirements is the unwillingness of DCJS to work with national and local locksmith associations in granting approval for their existing training programs and instructors.  These associations have had people and curricula in place for many years and should be utilized; not over looked or even looked down upon for not being DCJS approved already.  Many of these people come from other states and Virginia locksmiths are now being excluded from the benefit of their experience.

3.  While the fees did not impact my business profits, I do not feel this license is equal towards all locksmiths.  I do not currently do work for the “general public.”  This term, “general public” should be better defined as well.  I almost deal exclusively with the government and government contractors.  These people know exactly what their requirements are and hire work accordingly.

4.  Another concern is the lack of outcry from within the industry.  Since this law is intended to protect the public, what is in place to protect me from the shoddy work being passed off as acceptable by larger companies?

5.  The law should encompass all who perform the work as defined.  Just because a company does not need to be licensed, as defined under exclusions, their employees are still performing the work of those that are licensed.

Elliott Paul Connor, CML

Certified Master Locksmith

Owner:  Top Secret Security

DCJS: 11-5688

DCJS: 99-216446

Memberships:

Safe and Vault Technicians Association

National Safemans Organization

Associated Locksmiths of America

Virginia Locksmiths Association (Vice President & Education Chairman)

Institutional Locksmiths Assocation

I oppose this bill. A bar of good standing had turned into a monumental paper fiasco. Although I do agree on two of the points, I think that the licensing laws are unfair. We as small business' are under scrutney about being licensed and relicensed, but big boys as Lowe's and Home Depot are not.

Yes, I am in favor of the intent to licensing, but would prefer it to be at the local level who knows us better.  Do all the background checks you want.  After 27 years in business, I think if I didn’t have the customer’s best interest at heart we would not still be here.

Around Roanoke, locksmiths are not competing over each other as much as in more crowded area of Virginia; we deal more with box stores, door & hardware stores, handyman, carpenters, and tow truck operators, etc. We have all found our nitch and try to help one another out, It’s called being in Business, this law was suppose to be about protecting the public and not about competition.  No one that cuts a key, sells a lock, rekeys locks, or installs locks should be exempt.  This is an unfair tax.

I have to have part-time workers trained for 16 hours of lecturing (not hands on experience) on locksmithing to be able to cut keys.  Box stores are exempt, why?  I can’t have a student under the age of 18 to help out and learn the trade, why?  Both can go to a box store and work without licensing and training!  Unfair.

After over 27 years of earning the community’s trust and support, I am proud to call myself a locksmith.

I could go on for days, I just thing we, for the most part, all agree a license is a good idea, but not this one or not being processed through the DCJS.

Please stop this bill and allow more input.

What is the rush, you already have our money and DCJS is overwhelmed with questions that have come up!

I received my letter for comment on December 8, 2008 and the deadline was December 12, 2008.  At least you need to extend comment until after the holiday season.  Be fair!

Let’s get a license law we can all live with.

David Frydrych

I question our Delegates and Senators that have not read this bill before approval, as well as anyone else that took part in this process, and thought it was what was needed to protect the public.  Based on the national website if the Better Business Bureau, locksmiths are not the problem to the public. Why the rush emergency tax?

I am currently working for a locksmith company that has been in business in Virginia for over 26 years.  We have a very large customer base that is mostly from repeat business.  We already performed background checks on our employees and had bonds in place to help our customer's feel safe and secure using our services.  We do all we can to abide by the current laws in place to (1) run a legitimate business, and (2) satisfy the customer's request with the utmost level of security and satisfaction.  We must be doing something right, because we are still in business with no complaints. 

Coming from the construction world, I was greatly involved in the training and licensing of tradesman, handled through the DPOR agency.  I dealt daily with apprentices (with schooling and hands-on training) checked on their training vs. hands on training and with the schooling agency  the businesses employing these employees and the DPOR and VDOL licensing/training requirements.  I feel that locksmiths should be trained and licensed in Virginia.  But I feel the law was passed a little too quickly without the proper people involved to assist with knowledge and experience to get a system setup that will be beneficial to ALL businesss involved in the State of Virginia.  Northern Virginia may have had some problems with phony locksmith, but why penalize the whole State in a rush measure to set forth regulations to be adhered to in a short time without doing it correctly.  The DCJS has been bonbarded with this new regulation and cannot keep up with the demand of all the requirements of reporting.  To date, you still cannot pull up the DCJS website and check the status of licensing for all locksmith and service providers, but yet we are told we are responsible to verifiy these items before working for the company.  Without this information at our disposal, we are losing business.  If we work for them and they are not licensed properly, we are the ones that get the fine.  Why should we have to police all the regulations??  This is very time consuming and aggravating when you are trying to run a very busy business.  I do not blame the DCJS because they are understaffed to handle this kind of overload.  I just feel this bill needs to be re-addressed and reformatted to accommodate all involved - and do it fairly.  No one should be exempt if they do any services that are to be performed by a locksmith (cutting a key, rekeying a lock, installing a lock, opening a car, programming a key, etc.) as the box stores.  Let's rethink this bill and get in set in place to properly benefit all involved.